In The News
GOHMERT INTERVIEW in Limbaugh Letter (June 2018 Edition)
Washington, June 1, 2018
Good to talk with the valorous seven-term Texas Republican congressman, former Chief Justice of the 12th Court of Appeals, whose storied record of staunch and vocal conservatism now includes his epic, must-read 48-page takedown of the Special Counsel, “Robert Mueller: Unmasked.”
RUSH: Louie! Thank you for making time for this.
GOHMERT: Are you kidding? Any time. It’s just such a treat.
RUSH: The reason I wanted to talk to you was the piece that you wrote about Robert Mueller, and the 40 questions that you want him to answer. Now, I’ve heard for years that Mueller has the highest honor, the highest integrity in Washington. He’s the epitome of Dudley Do-Right. It obviously isn’t true. If he were all of that, he would have shut this investigation down by now.
One of your 40 questions is, “Are you responsible for the fbi’s misuse of the Patriot Act … and other methods to obtain information?” Your piece covers everything Mueller did in the Whitey Bulger case, which I didn’t know. So I wanted to get your take on what Mueller’s ultimate endgame is. Are they actually running the House impeachment case right now and calling it the Mueller investigation?
GOHMERT: Yes, in a nutshell, Rush. I think the best indication came from Eric Holder in his March 2, 2018 interview when he basically said, “I have known Mueller for 20 to 30 years, and he is not going to stop till he’s got something he can prosecute Trump over.” That’s a guy who does know Mueller, and he knows he didn’t just get into this for justice, he got into it to nail Trump.
It’s true, Bush appointed him, but Obama wanted him to stay on a couple of extra years. This is a guy who purged the fbi training materials of the truth about radical Islam, so as one intelligence officer said, “He blinded us of our ability to see our enemy.” Now Mueller is about taking down Donald Trump as President.
RUSH: According to the text messages between Lisa Page and Peter Strzok, ex-Attorney General of New York Eric Schneiderman was the only non-federal official in meetings with the fbi, the Special Counsel’s office, that whole cabal. His part of the plot was presumably the pursuit of alleged New York State-based Trump “crimes.” Because Presidential pardon power is for federal offenses only. If Trump pardoned anyone, Schneiderman would be the guy to coordinate with Mueller and the fbi to get Trump. Now that Schneiderman’s been forced to resign in shame, do you think his resignation will affect the pace with which New York State’s aspect of this investigation is pursued?
GOHMERT: I think it’s going to really crush the New York State efforts to try to unilaterally take down an elected President of the United States. And boy, did Trump call that right. In 2013, Trump tweeted that Weiner went down, Spitzer went down, and Schneiderman would be next. What a sick puppy he turned out to be. It will substantially affect the efforts to go after Trump from New York State.
RUSH: But he’s not alone on the left.
GOHMERT: It will not deter Mueller at all.
RUSH: What about these two judges, Judge T. S. Ellis in Virginia, and Dabney Friedrich in Washington? I think this is classic. These judges have basically called Mueller out, one in the Manafort case, and the other on his indictment of these 13 Russian internet troll farms. These judges have essentially said, “Look, Mueller, we know what you’re doing. You’re simply pursuing all this to get Donald Trump.” Will these cases have any impact in slowing Mueller down? Because I think what Mueller’s doing from the get-go has been about depressing Trump’s approval numbers, in order to get rid of him. Impeachment is a political action —
GOHMERT: Yes, exactly.
RUSH: — so they’ve got to drive Trump’s poll numbers down. And they’re failing. Trump’s approval numbers are coming up. Reuters, cnn, the latest polls are so good they’re calling them outliers, they don’t believe their own polling. This bunch thought they’d have Trump gone in six months, but things are not working out as they planned. Will anybody succeed in shortening this, in diverting Mueller, or exposing him, do you think?
GOHMERT: I think these judges will actually help expose Mueller, and will help shorten the investigation into Trump. Because they see this for what it is. As a former Texas felony judge, one of the things that has so offended me — as someone who voted to continue to allow this fisa court operation and the Department of Justice intelligence agencies to use fisa as a way to do things, that we’ve got to protect secrecy — is that I counted on what they continue to represent to us in the Judiciary Committee, that we had nothing to worry about: “These are Article 3 judges. They’re nominated by the President, they’re investigated by the fbi, they have to be confirmed by the Senate, they’re federal district judges and federal circuit judges, so they can be trusted.”
But when we found out the fraud that was committed against these fisa courts, where even Rod Rosenstein participated in committing a fraud upon the court, Comey participated in committing a fraud upon the court, and misrepresenting the material that was presented to the judges as a reason to get warrants, not once, but four times when clearly, as time went on, they knew how tenuous and untrustworthy this evidence was — I just can’t believe that any federal judge who has any pride whatsoever in their federal court would stand for it. And for judges to have allowed fraud to be committed against their court, as they have over the warrants for the Trump campaign team, Carter Page, it tells me we can’t trust the fisa courts anymore.
As a felony judge, I found that if you put one lawyer in jail for one day for contempt of court, you get the rest of the lawyers to pretty well fly right, and then they follow the rules a little better.
But the fact that nobody has held anybody in contempt because of the fraud that was committed over the warrant for Carter Page tells me I don’t see how I can vote again to continue the fisa court system. I think it’s time to go back to the way we kept secrets before the fisa court. They just can’t be trusted.
RUSH: What’s the remedy, though? They’re using, and I know what you’re talking about, this phony dossier —
RUSH: — which is Hillary opposition research to get a fisa warrant to spy on Carter Page, which really lets them spy on the campaign. What’s the remedy for this? We as average citizens can see the abuses taking place, and we can see that nobody is standing up to stop it. Who fixes this, Louie, at the end of all this? Whether they get Trump or not?
GOHMERT: Actually, you were the first media person to raise a potential fix to all this back in late June of last year. You said, “Some are saying maybe it’s time to appoint a second special counsel to investigate Mueller and Rosenstein and Comey.”
Now we know that Andrew Weissmann ought to be in there, because he and Mueller and Rosenstein were the ones who were “investigating” Russia’s illegal efforts to get American uranium. They actually snuffed out the truth about that so the Committee on Financial Investments in the United States [cfius] would approve the sale of U.S. uranium ultimately to Russia. You brought that up last June, and you and I have emailed about it.
We do need a special prosecutor, special counsel, to investigate Rosenstein, Mueller, Comey, Weissmann, and anyone else who was involved in that investigation. Some of it’s still ongoing, but they were able to keep that quiet and keep it from cfius, so the deal got approved. Then the Clinton Foundation was able to get their $145 million.
Another thing that needs to be done is Rosenstein absolutely has to be fired. He has an assistant, Tashina Gauhar, who has been working with others, including some at the White House, to undermine Trump, to undermine Jeff Sessions. The President did a great thing when he fired H. R. McMaster. He was kind of the brain of this group of Deep State folks working at the White House and working in intelligence and doj and Homeland Security. Though he’s gone, a number of these people are still there. But Rosenstein’s got to be gone.
RUSH: Here’s the problem with that. I know why Trump is not firing Rosenstein. Trump’s lawyers have him convinced that if he fires Rosenstein or Mueller, or if he were to declassify all these redacted memos that the fbi will not release — Trump can declassify anything he wants; and they work for him, not the other way around — but his lawyers are afraid that could be portrayed as “obstructing justice.” Which is absurd, because the President cannot obstruct justice when he’s exercising his Constitutional authority.
RUSH: He needs a new set of lawyers who are Constitutional, and not defensive.
GOHMERT: Yes, yes.
RUSH: Not operating on the premise that Trump’s got something to hide here. These prosecutors need to be called out for what’s going on. And a second investigation is fine, but that’s another ten years.
GOHMERT: I agree. Look, nobody needs to be fired worse than Mueller does. But you just can’t fire him, because we’ve got too many weak-kneed Republicans in the House and Senate who have already said if he fires Mueller, they’ll proceed with impeachment. Remember the “Saturday Night Massacre.”
RUSH: That’s another thing I wanted to ask you. What are Senate Republicans doing passing legislation protecting Mueller?
GOHMERT: It’s an outrage. I do want to sit down with Senator Grassley and talk about some of the things he needs to know, so he will back off of this. He has no business protecting Mueller.
RUSH: How do these guys not know, Louie?
GOHMERT: He doesn’t. He’s a good guy, and you want a guy like Grassley on your side, because he does stand firm when he knows he’s right. But unfortunately, he’s had people giving wrong information. Lindsey Graham has probably been the one leading the charge to protect Mueller, and I guess convincing Grassley. But he needs to know the truth about Mueller, and I’ve written this 48-page article expressly for my friends who are Members of the House or Senate.
RUSH: I have it! Right here. “Robert Mueller Unmasked,” by Louie Gohmert.
GOHMERT: Exactly. This is not a guy who needs protecting. The President needs to be protected from a guy who will do whatever it takes to get Trump. So I think he can fire Rosenstein, and I think in the next few months information will start coming out about Rosenstein, making it clear he needs to go. I think he can fire Rosenstein without having people try to impeach him over it, because there’s plenty of cause. You can start with the investigation into Russia’s efforts to illegally get our uranium.
And the fact that he signed that fourth application for a warrant says that he committed a fraud against the court. That’s another reason why he should have been specifically disqualified, or recused, from appointing a special counsel regarding anything to do with Russia. He’s the last guy who should have been able to do that. Remember in 2003 when Comey, as Deputy Attorney General under John Ashcroft, maneuvered and told Ashcroft to recuse himself so Comey could appoint a Special Counsel? He appointed his old buddy, the godfather of his own child —
GOHMERT: Yes, Patrick Fitzgerald. So Comey, Mueller, Rosenstein, these guys have figured out how you play the justice system. Rosenstein has got to be fired. He’s been helping make Jeff Sessions look bad, and it’s the fault of Rosenstein and the people working for Rosenstein. Because Jeff is such an honest, honorable guy.
RUSH: What do you think of Devin Nunes’ threat to impeach Sessions? There was some reporting that the White House actually supported Sessions’ decision not to disclose the document that Nunes asked for. Could it be there are investigations going on from the Attorney General’s office that we don’t know about, and that Sessions is being more active than he has appeared to be since his recusal?
GOHMERT: Yes. Let me say this. Jeff recused himself from anything to do with the Russian investigation regarding the campaign. He is not the guy who has actually reviewed what needed to be redacted. He was being told what needed to be done by either Rosenstein or Tash Gauhar or others working for Rosenstein.
I understand Devin is doing absolutely everything he can to get to the truth. I talked to him today. He’s a good guy, he’s trying to do the right thing. But he has realized now that Jeff Sessions is not the one who needs to be held in contempt. It needs to be the people who actually redacted the information that should have been made public at least to the committee, even if it’s in a secured area like a scif [Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility].
As to the report that the White House “agreed” — here’s something you haven’t heard. That came from a guy named Uttam Dhillon, White House lawyer. He’s a guy who is subverting and doing damage to President Trump. He was part of McMaster’s little cabal, and unfortunately is still there.
If you go back to January 4, you find reporting by the mainstream media, Rush, that Uttam Dhillon told President Trump that he could not fire Comey unless he had just cause. That was a lie. He misrepresented the truth to the President so that his dear friend Comey would not be fired.
And by the way, if you do enough research, which nobody has up to this point, Uttam Dhillon was working for the Department of Justice when James Comey was the Deputy Attorney General, and Uttam Dhillon was the immediate assistant to Deputy Attorney General James Comey — which, Rush, is why Uttam Dhillon lied to President Donald J. Trump and told him he couldn’t fire Comey without just cause, which was exposed as a lie. So how about that for a little behind-the-scenes manipulation?
RUSH: Yes, that’s definitely news. I did not know that.
GOHMERT: Nobody besides a handful of folks here in Washington does. People in the House don’t know that yet.
RUSH: Before I let you go, what do you think about Trump pulling out of the Iran deal?
GOHMERT: That can be best reflected in what I just told the President’s assistant. I asked her to convey to the President that what he has done is fantastic, heroic, better than anything that was done in the realm of international affairs during the eight years of the Obama Administration.
And let me add, there were three of us from the House who sat down with the two lead iaea [International Atomic Energy Agency] investigators who inspect Iran’s facilities. They said that of course they had never been allowed to inspect any of Iran’s military facilities. They said, if Iran is violating the agreement then it would most likely be pursuing nuclear weapons in their military facilities, but they can’t say that’s what Iran is doing because they’re not allowed to inspect it. Iran had given them video and said, “Here are our military facilities, and as you can see there is nothing going on here that’s nuclear.” Right.
I heard yesterday one of my Democratic friends in Congress saying, “We know Iran is not doing anything to breach the Iran agreement, because if you move around uranium or any nuclear material it is always detectable, because there are isotopes that are detectable.” He’s a nice guy, but he’s just wrong.
RUSH: There’s no such thing as a nice guy who’s wrong. Wrong guys are wrong, and that’s where it ends.
GOHMERT: That’s right. But the inspectors themselves said, in answer to my question, “Is it possible for Iran to be moving nuclear material, or if they got a nuclear weapon from Pakistan or North Korea, could they move that around without your detecting it?” They said, “Absolutely.” The only way they would know if Iran either was developing, working with nuclear material, or had a nuclear weapon, is if Iran brought the nuclear weapon or the nuclear material very close to the detection equipment they have. And Iran knows where the detection equipment is, so there’s no way they would ever allow something they were doing secretly to be detected.
RUSH: So the Obama Administration knew all of this.
GOHMERT: Yes, they did.
RUSH: We got a reaction from Obama to Trump’s speech on Iran. He said Trump’s decision to pull out of the deal was “so misguided.”
GOHMERT: Coming from a President who subjected this country and Israel to an existential threat, that is quite a compliment for President Trump. As my late Mama used to say, “Sometimes when you consider the source, it’s actually a compliment.” In Trump’s case, for Obama to condemn what he said is the ultimate compliment.
RUSH: I actually thought Trump’s speech, in terms of the substance, the content, and the delivery, may have been the most consequential move and speech that he’s made. And it was all coordinated. He informed the people on the Hill. It didn’t appear to come from the hip. It was studied, it was thorough, and it was reasoned. I think there are going to be a lot of people scared to death over this, because this is the epitome of competence, which is the last thing they expect from Trump.
GOHMERT: He said he was going to do this during the campaign. So on the list of the few things that he promised that have not been done, you can check off one more. I’ll tell you something else that thrilled me was to see Netanyahu immediately speak on the other side of the world, right after Trump. That tells me that he coordinated with Netanyahu, which adds to what you’re saying about this being so consequential. And that’s also, Rush, why I think what he did is more important for the good of Western Civilization than anything the Obama Administration did.
RUSH: Okay, so here is where we are. This is the Obama legacy, Louie. Paris climate deal, we’re out of it, it’s dead. The Iran nuclear deal, we’re out of it, it’s dead. Obamacare, mostly eviscerated. So what’s left of Obama’s legacy is: Donald Trump.
GOHMERT: And the tax bill did include repeal of the individual mandate, which is pulling the string that should unravel Obamacare. But unfortunately, because the Senate wouldn’t pass the huge compromise we had in the House to at least repeal some of Obamacare, there are still people hurting. And we are still fighting for repeal. I love this about Donald Trump, that he doesn’t give up.
It reminds me of what Gorbachev said in one of the closed meetings — we got the actual transcript, we had a mole there. Gorbachev told the others, “I know you’ve all seen and heard Reagan’s speech saying we’ve got to tear down the Berlin Wall. This guy is like a bulldog. Once he latches on, he just doesn’t let go. So it looks like to save face, we’re going to have to tear down the wall.”
That went against everything that every single State Department official, all Reagan’s advisors, were telling him: “You can’t say, ‘Tear down this wall.’” Reagan said it anyway, and it turned out that Gorbachev’s response was, “He’s a bulldog.” I think Iran and Putin and the world are saying, “This Trump guy is like a bulldog. He doesn’t let go.” He’s been looking at this Iran deal for at least 15, 16 months, and knows it’s a bad deal.
On the Paris accords, you often hear foreign leaders say that unless the United States is part of this Paris Climate Accord, Kyoto Accord, Reykjavik Accord, whatever it is, it won’t work. The reason they say that is, we’re the one that’s going to pay every other country in the world — so of course they want us to be part of it. Well, Trump’s a businessman. He gets all the facts and says, “What? We’re supposed to pay every other country in the world because we’ve got a guilty conscience, after we’ve fought for their freedoms? After we have improved their standard of living? After we’ve done so much, and then we’re going to pay them? No, we’re not going to be part of that agreement.”
So he did that with Paris, now he’s done it with Iran, and we can get after Iran and force them to be more legitimate. It also puts them at risk of Israel having to step up and prevent them from going nuclear.
RUSH: Louie, I appreciate your time so much here.
GOHMERT: I love talking to you, Rush Limbaugh. For those who read this, I’ve been listening to you since 1992. I told you years ago I had a friend in Tyler, Texas, who said, “Louie, have you heard Rush Limbaugh?” I said, “I’ve seen the name.” “Louie, he’s your kind of guy, he’s got your kind of sense of humor.” [Laughs] I hope you’re not offended by that. But I listened to you in the spring of ’92, loved you, been listening since. And you nail these things so well, and you have such a good feel for things. And you’ve been right on all this, and you’re right again.
RUSH: Let me say, there’s nobody like you, Louie.
GOHMERT: I don’t know if that’s a compliment, but I appreciate it very much. [Laughs]
RUSH: No, it is a full-throated compliment.
GOHMERT: Well, I just love you, Rush. I enjoy you, and I regret that being in Congress I don’t get to listen to the whole show like I used to, but by the way, I was traveling this weekend. I love the Rush 24/7! So, I got to listen to all three hours on Friday. And as usual, you’re terrific. Thank you for all you do, Rush.
RUSH: By the way, Louie. Would you like an iPhone or an iPad, I’ve got some I could send you here.
GOHMERT: I would, but I can’t accept gifts like that. I could accept anything you sent if I put it in a frame and put it on the wall. That is what Ethics told me. One university wanted to give me a putter that was designed by one of their grads, and I said, “Holy cow, I would love that.” But I found out from Ethics if you’re going to keep it, you have to pay full value for it, unless you hang it up on the wall and never use it. [Laughs] So I don’t want to put an iPhone up on the wall and not use it. But thank you very much for the offer, Rush.
RUSH: All right, Louie. Have a great rest of the day, and again, thank you.
GOHMERT: God blessed America with you, man, and I just appreciate you so much!
RUSH: Same here, Louie. You’re doing the Lord’s work.